Re: Hi!

None of you have still really have achieved anything.

só de fazer você usar um tradutor pra entender o que eu acabei de dizer é um grande feito wink
o resto é lucro

http://i.imgur.com/7bHEVW1.jpg

Re: Hi!

so first you post a bunch of gifs even a gif Asking for more the you go playing the serious bitch teaching us ethics cheers mate owned kurwa

Yoshimitsu the Hedgehog

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/518/4zcx.jpg

Re: Hi!

serio que merda, ignora esse pessoal reclamando e olha o que voce mesmo ta fazendo cara, seu opensonic nao se diferencia em nada de outros fangames, se vc quiser se destacar mesmo fazendo essa infantilidade de sonic tenta ao menos fazer umc lone da emgine do novo sonic, para de viver no passado puta que pariu

Re: Hi!

Thommasson wrote:

se vc quiser se destacar mesmo fazendo essa infantilidade

wrong thinking. Contrary to what you say, I'm not trying to get "reputation", "prestige", "status", or any other such BS. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody. I do it in my free time because I enjoy. Quite simple. smile

STALTZ wrote:

To the Americans of the Almighty United States of America: we dont have a purpose here, and we dont even want anything like revenge or get apologies. We're simply continuing a conversation that was suddenly interrupted.

then, sirs, please decide what you want. You've got my attention. If you want a conversation with me, I'm willing to talk to you. If you just want to troll around, fighting all the time, I won't stop you but I have nothing to say about it.

Re: Hi!

Alexandre wrote:

If you want a conversation with me, I'm willing to talk to you

Let's do it Q3DM7 10 fraglimit 1v1 you and me

Yoshimitsu the Hedgehog

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/518/4zcx.jpg

Re: Hi!

Alexandre wrote:
Thommasson wrote:

se vc quiser se destacar mesmo fazendo essa infantilidade

wrong thinking. Contrary to what you say, I'm not trying to get "reputation", "prestige", "status", or any other such BS. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody. I do it in my free time because I enjoy. Quite simple.

STALTZ wrote:

To the Americans of the Almighty United States of America: we dont have a purpose here, and we dont even want anything like revenge or get apologies. We're simply continuing a conversation that was suddenly interrupted.

then, sirs, please decide what you want. You've got my attention. If you want a conversation with me, I'm willing to talk to you. If you just want to troll around, fighting all the time, I won't stop you but I have nothing to say about it.

Good. Lets start by talking what really happened with GB. I gave my version of the story. Discourse on top of it.

Re: Hi!

STALTZ wrote:

You're not really understanding my point here. I'm talking about those leverage ratios as for decentralized inspiration, not about whether one has money or not to make their indie game. I know plenty of cases of indie developers that struggle to survive just through freelance jobs, and their free time goes to really well done games. It's not money that makes a good game, but good inspirations. Decentralized inspirations. If your inspiration is all in Sonic, then that's what you'll get, Sonic rip-offs. Not remixes and mutations that evolve into original artwork. Watch http://everythingisaremix.info/ a documentary about this

A leveraging ratio is, by its very definition, a ratio used to calculate whether a company can repay its debts.  So I feel my answer still stands on its own.  When one has inspiration for making a game one does not immediately calculate these ratios, so I do not consider them one of the major motivations that starts a person into making independent games.  Also, inspiration can be a funny thing.  It can come from many many sources to make something completely off the wall.  In my earlier posts I was merely stating that sonic should not be immediately discounted as a source of inspiration because, for many, it is.

STALTZ wrote:

But that's not what I want to talk about. You've been ignoring me when I've been talking about cultural paradigms VS vertical hierarchies through leverage ratios. Things that REALLY affect communities like this. Real shit. Forums like this, man, happen every once in a while, and it's because we don't get those leverage ratios.

So, what you really want to talk about are cultural concepts or thought patterns VS the rigid structure of a forum?  I'm not understanding what leveraging ratios have to do with it though, as stated earlier I do not believe that is one of the primary motivating factors when first starting an independent game.  As for the remainder of the argument you are correct that culture does shift in such a way, however if we view this point from the main thought in Plato's Republic you will see why I consider democracy in this particular case to be a shift down.  First we start with a monarchy, and done correctly it is powerful and unbroken.  After that we move down to a timocracy where the strong rule (this is seen in forum terms when the old members attempt to strong-arm the new ones in decision making).  The next step down is an oligarchy, where money rules (as seen if financial contribution buys one power in a forum).  Next we move to democracy, which is seen in the book as a sort of mob rule because people have gotten sick of the above systems and want something new.  The only bad thing about the democracy in this particular sense is it inevitably leads to dictatorship unless kept in check by a very careful system of checks and balances.  Is that more along the lines of what you wanted to hear or is there yet another point of yours I'm missing?

Yuush wrote:

Instead of wasting time reading this, why don't you make a research? Soon you'll find that it's not as easy as it seems. In fact, dealing with spammers everywhere has worn out the credibility of seveveral websites as well as it's vanished the reputation of gaming development of homemade creations. Moreover, the monopoly of the largest companies has struck down all the hopes of those who struggle to earn a piece of the market's pie. So while we argue here, there are lots of conglomerates reinforcing ideologies such as the already shown vertical hierarquies through leverage ratios. The worst part of this is that unimportant people like us can simply keep this system and help it grow by simply ignoring the facts and taking in advance that we're all wrong. What a shame....

Alright, you have my attention with your leveraging ratios, can I get specific examples how how large conglomerates are using these leveraging ratios to maintain their hold on a market where freedom of information is becoming more and more a reality and the power of major publishers in the industry is slipping from them every day because the huge overhead of physical distribution is no longer required to get to every part of the world?

If I knew then what I know now I'd tell you that the story's true.  Cause whatever you do, it comes back to you.  -Slaughter, Burning Bridges

Re: Hi!

Alexandre wrote:

wrong thinking. Contrary to what you say, I'm not trying to get "reputation", "prestige", "status", or any other such BS. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody. I do it in my free time because I enjoy. Quite simple.

El logro de la reputación y el prestigio, a esto responden las armas que las leyes no se podrán sustentar sin ellas, porque con las armas se defienden las repúblicas, se conservan los reinos, se guardan las ciudades, se aseguran los caminos, se despejan los mares de cosarios, y, finalmente, si por ellas no fuese, las repúblicas, los reinos, las monarquías, las ciudades, los caminos de mar y tierra estarían sujetos al rigor y a la confusión que trae consigo la guerra el tiempo que dura y tiene licencia de usar de sus previlegios y de sus fuerzas.

Re: Hi!

who started this conversation anyways cuz' it seems like a heated debate about something

www.facebook.com/24XFSAL  Hasn't been updated anytime recently, don't bother.
I'm on SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/rain-new-holy - I plan to upload one soon.
Name change from 24XFSAL coming soon. Currently studying for Information Technology and Game development. (Also studying game theory in spare time.)

Re: Hi!

neves wrote:

None of you have still really have achieved anything.

only do you use a translator to understand what I just said is a great achievement wink
the rest is profit

so just becuz' of translators you make...something out of it? (in a way)

www.facebook.com/24XFSAL  Hasn't been updated anytime recently, don't bother.
I'm on SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/rain-new-holy - I plan to upload one soon.
Name change from 24XFSAL coming soon. Currently studying for Information Technology and Game development. (Also studying game theory in spare time.)

Re: Hi!

STALTZ wrote:

Good. Lets start by talking what really happened with GB. I gave my version of the story. Discourse on top of it.

thank you. smile

@arribalex, yuushimitsu, neves: will you stop the trolling and let the conversation happen, or would you rather go on with the BS? Thy Will Be Done.

==================================

STALTZ wrote:

Sss somus inteliggentis. Vcc conttinua n entendendu o q si passoou na GB. Nunka foi 1 coflito entri grupus di pessoaz, foi entr ideologiaz. A genchi acreditava no "criassaum di jogus eh aki", e a gente nn via nenhu sensu ter ou apoiah conteudu do tipo "comofas pular mola hihihihi somic somic". Foi uma gueha contra NOOBISMO.

the real issue is the "war" mindset you have mentioned. "war against noobism". "Noobism" is just the superficial story.

see, it doesn't matter whether you have a forum system that is centralized or decentralized, vertical or horizontal, pink or green. If people maintain this war mindset, fighting and mutual destruction are unavoidable. Therefore, it is *very very important* that the administrators/veterans give the correct example and discourage violence. However, for that to happen, the "leaders" must not get caught in self-important, fearful or conflicted thinking. At that point, I admittedly failed. sad

if there is no war mindset, then there is no hatred against the "stupid noobs who made the place dirty".

STALTZ wrote:

Era uma kestao de alinhah a ideologia daa GB com o ki tinha de melhor na comunidade: criassaum de jogos eh aki, e as pezoas involvidaz en fazeh minigames, materias, etc. vcsabe mto benn que isu era u melhor da gb. [...] No finau das contas, foi uma questaum do SEU orgulho e "self-importance" manteh aquele noobismo da GB. Lembro mto claramente nois falando via IM, ki vc queria manter a enchu hada de fangames de sonic na pagina inisial pq trasia visitantes.

quite right. Behind all these dramas, in which I got caught up, we too had a problem of focus. Our website had this slogan "game making is here", and it had all the positive things you mentioned. Yet, it also had quite a lot 'gringo' freeware games to download: japanese stuff, and so on. Nothing "wrong" with the games in themselves in my opinion, but they frequently had nothing to do with "game making is here". So, we had many many people who would visit the website just to play cool games, and 'perhaps', 'who-knows', learn how to make their own (but they didn't have the discipline). And we also had other group of people who were more interested in game making, more "serious" about it (I don't say "intelligent" to discourage such fantasies of superiority). Many people got to know our website due to the freeware games (including Yuush, I believe?), but very few of them would get "serious" about "game making is here".

Unfortunately, yes, I tried to get more and more visitors. I succeeded, but I also lost my way, as the simple philosophy of "game making is here" got divided between "freeware games for everybody" and "game making is here". Two very different target audiences, who interfered with each other. Admittedly, a rather poor choice looking back tongue, as I lost my way valuing things that weren't valuable.

Re: Hi!

will you stop the trolling and let the conversation happen, or would you rather go on with the BS? Thy Will Be Done.

If you just want to troll around, fighting all the time, I won't stop you but I have nothing to say about it.

decida-se, cara

http://i.imgur.com/7bHEVW1.jpg

Re: Hi!

lunarrush wrote:

Alright, you have my attention with your leveraging ratios, can I get specific examples how how large conglomerates are using these leveraging ratios to maintain their hold on a market where freedom of information is becoming more and more a reality and the power of major publishers in the industry is slipping from them every day because the huge overhead of physical distribution is no longer required to get to every part of the world?

Rapaz, fui claro.

Last edited by Yuush (2013-08-09 23:42:09)

http://i39.tinypic.com/o6zq6o.png

Re: Hi!

Essa discussão não faz mais sentido, mas ta divertido isso aqui. É como os velhos tempos smile

Acho que o STALTZ se expressou mal sobre a tal 'superioridade' em relação aos sonicnoobs. Não é uma questão de ser superior ou mais inteligente. Mas sim de quem tem bom senso, mas outros nem tanto. Temos que encarar que alguns usuários estavam passos à frente de outros. Não admitir isso seria uma falsa humildade. Sejamos honestos acima de tudo.

E também Alex, você compreendeu mal nosso sentimento. Nunca se tratou de uma guerra contra os noobs. Mas sim tentativas de amadurecer a comunidade.

Deu no que deu, mas também não adianta ficar jogando isso na sua cara. Acredito que o que está acontecendo, é que você fechou a GB daquele jeito e não deixou nenhuma lista de discussão, não nos deu direito de resposta. Agora tudo o que foi represado jorra em você com tudo. Tivemos que ler um mural de texto sem poder replicar anos atrás no dia que você  fechou a GB, agora aguenta =P

Re: Hi!

neves wrote:

so first you post a bunch of gifs even a gif Asking for more the you go playing the serious bitch teaching us ethics cheers mate owned kurwa

You mean like you all did? You know, those gifs posted around the forum? In this very thread? The thread that you are now using to talk about the 'serious' thing that happened involving Alex taking down the website?

Just saying. wink

More 'serious bitching':

So much stereotyping is going on. Calling out the forum as a whole, Americans, and the people making projects here. Almost like you all want to provoke a response or something. None of you really want anything, you're just going to keep trolling and taking potshots at everybody until somebody does something drastic.

I really don't give a shit about any opinions that you post here, because they are rendered meaningless by your actions.

Everyone who is defending this place: Don't fucking bother with these people anymore. Quit responding to this thread. Just ignore them. That's more effective than any argument you could retaliate with.

So, what now? Are we going to reach a resolution, or spend the next 6 years arguing pointlessly over this?

I can probably tell you which one's more likely.

Last edited by SupertheHedgie (2013-08-10 01:37:23)

Re: Hi!

Dude, you're soooooooo mature. yikes

http://i39.tinypic.com/o6zq6o.png

Re: Hi!

So, pointless trolling?
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... Yep, pointless trolling it is!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24102763/derf/thisentirethread.gif

Re: Hi!

SupertheHedgie wrote:

Everyone who is defending this place: Don't fucking bother with these people anymore. Quit responding to this thread. Just ignore them. That's more effective than any argument you could retaliate with.

It's easy to conclude that not only you're really mature but also coherent.

Last edited by Yuush (2013-08-10 02:04:40)

http://i39.tinypic.com/o6zq6o.png

Re: Hi!

Yuush wrote:
SupertheHedgie wrote:

Everyone who is defending this place: Don't fucking bother with these people anymore. Quit responding to this thread. Just ignore them. That's more effective than any argument you could retaliate with.

It's easy to conclude that not only you're really mature, but also coherent.

Or I'm just making this thread even more meaningless than it already is by contradicting myself.

Well, if it's possible that it can be any more pointless, anyways. Ah well.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24102763/derf/simon.gif

Really, I was wrong. Six years of this sounds fun. wink

Last edited by SupertheHedgie (2013-08-10 02:12:42)

Re: Hi!

SupertheHedgie wrote:

Really, I was wrong. Six years of this sounds fun.

Pero es mucho más que eso.

Frisaba la edad de nuestro hidalgo con cincuenta años era de complexión recia, seco de carnes, enjuto de rostro; gran madrugador y amigo de la caza.

Last edited by ArribaleX (2013-08-10 03:09:08)

Re: Hi!

Alexandre Martins.

Certo e errado. Certo sobre o foco, ainda bem que vc entendeu essa parte. Atrás do seu drama, você sabia que tinha um problema de foco. E advinha só, a gente obviamente sabia desse problema de foco, só que como somos pessoas diferentes, a gente comunicava isso de forma diferente. O pfp falando contra fangames. Eu falando contra noobismo. Etc. E sim, tambem gente que acha noobs pessoas inferiores. Mas nem todo mundo pensa assim. O importante é que todo mundo reconhecia o problema de foco. E você, como o único detentor do poder de mudar a pagina inicial e outras coisas (por isso a noção de "rei") era o único que recebia todas essas críticas. Obviamente. Ou como poderia ser diferente? Nós fizemos nosso melhor. Eu fiz meu melhor. Colocamos matéria de movimento custom e IA na página inicial. Mas ao lado de fangames e guloseimas pra consumidores que nao querem fazer jogos. E você era o único que podia mudar aquilo.

No inicio desse post falei que você tava certo e errado. Errado sobre a noção de guerra. Guerra foi uma palavra mal escolhida que acabou pipocando nessa discussão. Esquece guerra.

O unico problema era o foco. E quando se insiste muito sobre um problema, se discute, e pq não, "se briga", mas tudo era resolvivel e esquecivel se não fosse a sua rosa @-;--.

Qual é a raíz desse problema? Índices de alavancagem (os "leverage ratio" que eu me referi) associados aos esforços descoletivo dos membros não-noob (leia-se associados ao foco gaming é aqui mas só a criação destes, involuntariamente dos opostos ao fangamismo).

Vocês parecem não estar me entendendo. Expliquei em detalhes pro gringo, mas ele ignorou. Você vai ignorar também? É muito fácil ignorar, afinal é isso que você vem fazendo desde que fechou a GB né? Mas já que está tão disposto a conversar, que tal parar de ignorar o problema raíz? Para de dar as desculpas das suas crises ou as supostas guerras. Tudo foi uma inconsequência dos paradigmas culturas Sonic vc hierarquias verticais. Leia tudo novamente.

Claro que quando digo leverage ratio estou falando de forma figurada porque não somos empresa ou sociedade, mas de que outra forma irreparável pode se não ignorar (ou dependendo da situação, ignorar, se conseguimos) as alternativas pra GB?

Que tipo de relacionamento vertical existiria entre as hierarquias de uma comunidade alternativa ao Sonic? BRMaker não funcionou, ao mesmo modelo que GB se desinspirou ao 'ad-hoc' conjunto de comunidade de criação de jogos? Foi VOCÊ, ALEXANDRE MARTINS, o fator desconexo. A comunidade em si estava dissoluta. A gente entendia, mesmo que intuitivamente, os leverage ratio. Você? O que disse? E sempre disse? Politizou. Defendeu a confusão. E confundiu mais ainda ao dar fuck all com a rosa.

Exercício de lógica. Escolha a melhor eventualidade mínima necessária para ter a maior quantidade de alternativas para os nossos problemas de hierarquia vertical. Logo logo você vai chegar a conclusão de que fechar a GB com aquela pagina melancólica não é a resposta correta.

Afinal, muitos de nós eram adolescentes com crises emocionais. Eu mesmo tinha vestibular, crise financeira na família, namorava uma menina bruxa e suicida, e estudava num colégio onde muitos me odiavam. Mas NUNCA descontei isso na GB como moderador. Veja bem, então, que até mesmo a desculpa dos problemas emocionais seus parecem ser uma razão suficiente ao rage quit, mas na realidade não foi esse o motivo.

Então, me responda. Qual? Quando? E o que? Qual vertente verossímil idenpotente se apresenta a você (na sua mente confusa, pelo visto) como a explicação ao fangamismo? Que conjunto de regras (do forum), ideologias, exemplos, recepçôes, seçôes, contraminas, tópicos, e matérias seria o subconjunto mínimo (do que existia na GB) para apresentar um comunidade irresoluta dos problemas que nos afetavam?

Escolha. Vocé é zamifeiro ou sandeu?

Re: Hi!

gente, agora mesmo q não estou entendendo nada. por que esse campo de batalha aqui?

Re: Hi!

SupertheHedgie wrote:
neves wrote:

so first you post a bunch of gifs even a gif Asking for more the you go playing the serious bitch teaching us ethics cheers mate owned kurwa

You mean like you all did? You know, those gifs posted around the forum? In this very thread? The thread that you are now using to talk about the 'serious' thing that happened involving Alex taking down the website?

o cara não sabe mais nem quem postou o que --> caos ♥

http://i.imgur.com/7bHEVW1.jpg

Re: Hi!

MatheusRRR wrote:

gente, agora mesmo q não estou entendendo nada. por que esse campo de batalha aqui?

¿Quieres un dibujo deseñado?

Last edited by ArribaleX (2013-08-10 17:25:15)

Re: Hi!

eu queria q vcs paracem e olhacem a merda q vcs fizeram. Essa comunidade é exclusivamente para falar o desenvolvimento do open surge. Mesmo se fosse no "Off-topic", ninguem é obrigado a saber dos problemas pessoais ou comunitários de vcs (o que seja). oque aconteceu no passado é passado. Eu sei que eu não tenho nada a ver com essa discução, mas oque eu quero é que vcs parem com essa discução, que eu sei q isso não vai levar a nada.