Topic: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

The current version is: 2.3

Download UltraTemplateVersion2.3.zip

http://upload.surgeswarehouse.com/upload/ultimatetemplatev2.0.png

This one is grouped easily and also includes bigger loops, clouds, and some passables. I took out a lot of the inverted slopes because I doubt we'd use them anyways.

Things you need to know about v2.0:

-There's only 1 grp now
-Light colored passables have a zindex of 0.8 and dark ones have one of 0.1.
-That blue strip with two black lines is used to put on top of loops.
-The arrows on the big blocks indicate which ways you can run on them.
-Clouds are fixed.
-Made 2.1 to fix a bug with loops.
-In 2.3, big loops are grouped, including the inverted ones.

Last edited by SilverstepP (2011-06-12 23:35:16)

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

As we discussed earlier... Cool! and happy birthday!

Suggestions: bigger loops and an editable space for level-specific passable/decorative bricks.

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

happy birthday Colin!!!! awesome work here. Ill give it a try once I get a laptop. big_smile

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

wrath1138 wrote:

happy birthday Colin!!!! awesome work here. Ill give it a try once I get a laptop. big_smile

Thanks, man. xD

Alexandre wrote:

As we discussed earlier... Cool! and happy birthday!
Suggestions: bigger loops and an editable space for level-specific passable/decorative bricks.

Thanks. :-)
In progress with the loops right now, but the editable space will be made after all the solid stuff is done.

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

Happy birthday Silver! The template's awesome, too! big_smile

Your teacher asks you. What to answer? Say this:
"I thought the teacher is supposed to know."

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

Happy birthday!

Perfect Music for celebrating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdoxpC6Xsa0

lol

Awesome brickset, i was thinking of doing an "standard" brickset then filling it up with my textures for my mod but now I have half the work done. I want to cry of happiness cool

"The true master is always learning"
Avatar by Raul Sama.

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

well, we might have a problem. it'd be nice to hear opinions of other level designers as well.

i was trying to make a level with your brickset today - at ultimatetemplate.lev -, and i found it really hard to use, due in part to the excess of groups (some probably unnecessary for most levels)

- it's annoying to make levels, and even more annoying to make loops. hard to find the correct groups, and even harder to guess which pentagon is the right one to use as a wall
- lots of unknown groups cluttering the group list

i mean, having that many options is awesome - i thought that at first, but when you actually try to design a level, i found it to be painful. as the reason we're making groups is to make the designer's life easier, i think we should simplify this brickset to a minimum, only having what's really important: ground, wall, ceiling, a few slopes, loops (preferably with groups that put the entire loops in there)

my opinion:
- you could cut out the curvy slopes, but let the straight/line slopes in there. if we need curvy slopes in a level, we can adapt it
- we don't need pipes in the template, do we? it clutters up the list, and not every level needs them
- PLEASE replace those pentagons by some more intuitive indications (using arrows or etc to tell us which wall type/angle it is)
- do we really need the stairs?

i now think the template should be minimum, yet having all the essentials. if we need more advanced stuff, we can add in the level-specific bricksets. we should probably hear more level designers before redesigning stuff, but i think they'll agree...

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

Alexandre wrote:

i now think the template should be minimum, yet having all the essentials. if we need more advanced stuff, we can add in the level-specific bricksets. we should probably hear more level designers before redesigning stuff, but i think they'll agree...

As a brickset designer, I agree as well. smile

Your teacher asks you. What to answer? Say this:
"I thought the teacher is supposed to know."

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

Alexandre wrote:

well, we might have a problem. it'd be nice to hear opinions of other level designers as well.

i was trying to make a level with your brickset today - at ultimatetemplate.lev -, and i found it really hard to use, due in part to the excess of groups (some probably unnecessary for most levels)

- it's annoying to make levels, and even more annoying to make loops. hard to find the correct groups, and even harder to guess which pentagon is the right one to use as a wall
- lots of unknown groups cluttering the group list

i mean, having that many options is awesome - i thought that at first, but when you actually try to design a level, i found it to be painful. as the reason we're making groups is to make the designer's life easier, i think we should simplify this brickset to a minimum, only having what's really important: ground, wall, ceiling, a few slopes, loops (preferably with groups that put the entire loops in there)

my opinion:
- you could cut out the curvy slopes, but let the straight/line slopes in there. if we need curvy slopes in a level, we can adapt it
- we don't need pipes in the template, do we? it clutters up the list, and not every level needs them
- PLEASE replace those pentagons by some more intuitive indications (using arrows or etc to tell us which wall type/angle it is)
- do we really need the stairs?

i now think the template should be minimum, yet having all the essentials. if we need more advanced stuff, we can add in the level-specific bricksets. we should probably hear more level designers before redesigning stuff, but i think they'll agree...

The idea behind this thing is to make it so a level can have diverse art, diverse bricks, and, most importantly, not look clipped everywhere in a level. This template was made to make it so you can do whatever you need when you use ONLY 64 by 64 pieces at coordinates that are multiples of 64.

We want a level to look clean. The reason for the stairs is so we don't have to shuffle around the groups.

Basically it's the difference between this:
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz187/SilverstepP/s018.png


Vs. this:
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz187/SilverstepP/s017-1.png

I want the levels to be able to look clean instead of worrying about how those 64 by 64 groups start jamming together like in this picture. You see how this checkerboard looks? If this happens it could result in a lot of mess-ups if you decide to make a lower path for this. It doesn't look as clean.

This is why I made the template so big. It's made to fit any situation you want and to still look clean while doing so. It may take a bit to find groups to use correctly but it's still way faster and cleaner than doing it like the second pic with fewer groups. So yes, the 'stairs' are needed.

You do realize all pentagons have walls on both sides, right? You can use them as either left or right walls. All of them. The normal blocks (no pentagon) are for ceilings and grounds. You can customize them whatever way you want to.

But! Here's a counter-proposal that will work anyways:

When we make future bricksets, if you want to take out the pipes, then you can for that specific level. Each level can have their groups cut depending on what the level needs beforehand to make it easier. Personally, I can make levels doing this; cutting things from the groups before making levels with it is pretty easy, actually. If you see a group you AREN'T going to use, just find what number it is and delete it in the grp. (thats the reason that there's two .grps; one tells you what the groups are in relation to the image, and the other is ordered so you can access groups in a more convenient manner (thats 'reorder')

The bricks for the groups can be deleted as well, but it really wouldn't be needed as bricksets compress extremely well and using a brickset to build a level from this is near impossible anyways. It is remarkably easy to make cuts and changes as you see fit in the groups, as it was meant to be. If you find a truly annoying group, just find it in the image, find out which one it is, and take it out. No harm would be done. But for flexibility standards, the template should remain this large by default.

EDIT: ... Did I just leak screenshots of my mod? o.o Well... dang.

Last edited by SilverstepP (2011-06-12 01:43:59)

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

I understand your point, SilverstepP, but I still believe minimalism is better than completeness. However, since I'm not the one actually building the levels, this decision is better suited to level designers. Nonetheless, I found it annoying to build the levels when the group list is cluttered up with things I don't want mixed with the ones I want.

Maybe you could have a top portion of the .png which only includes the really important stuff, and the bottom part of it would include everything else. So the basic stuff comes first in the group list, and then comes the rest. It's better than just swaping the groups in the .grp because we would be able to reuse RBE more easily.

I hope to hear opinions of more level designers on this, so we can take the best decision according to them. smile

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

Fair enough. I shall reorder it for the next release.

12

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

my 2 cents: The template png can and should be used as a source to make new bricksets. One can just copy the shapes that are going to be used, assemble them into another brickset, run it through RBE for correct angles, and then edit the "smaller" template as needed for the level.
While a template this big is good in variety, it may be a pain to assemble a level with it.
It's a great work and let it not go to waste, although it may be better used as a source of varied shapes.

happy b-day (maybe too late now) tongue

https://image.ibb.co/kuSYrm/SD_sml.pnghttps://image.ibb.co/kHq8P6/SeD_sml.pnghttps://image.ibb.co/cJf8P6/LTot_W_sml.png

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

Updated!

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

i still have to test it better before giving a more helpful feedback, but a first suggestion would be replacing manually the groups that make the quarter of the big inner and outer loops by the full quarter

for example

i dont think a tiny piece of a quarter of the big red loop is useful per se... and sliding them in the group list to get the correct order can be boring. why not replace all the 16 groups that make that loop for only 4 ones, each one being a full quarter? same about the big outer loop. i think just combining a few groups will do the trick. wink

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

Alexandre wrote:

i still have to test it better before giving a more helpful feedback, but a first suggestion would be replacing manually the groups that make the quarter of the big inner and outer loops by the full quarter

for example

i dont think a tiny piece of a quarter of the big red loop is useful per se... and sliding them in the group list to get the correct order can be boring. why not replace all the 16 groups that make that loop for only 4 ones, each one being a full quarter? same about the big outer loop. i think just combining a few groups will do the trick. wink

Alright then.

Re: Ultimate Template: 64 x 64 Tiles

Updated.