Open Surge Forum

A fun 2D retro platformer inspired by Sonic games and a game creation system

You are not logged in.

Announcement

Our community has moved to Discord! https://discord.gg/w8JqM7m

#1 2010-08-09 00:59:45

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

I (along with special thanks to Joepotato28) made an excellent song for the boss theme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rl-pr-8-3Q

I'm trying to contact Di. But still nothing... so... what do you guys think?

EDIT: I have an .ogg version available, before anyone gets too upset about that aspect...

Last edited by SilverstepP (2010-08-09 04:48:31)

Offline

#2 2010-08-09 09:05:11

ssdw
Member
From: Holland
Registered: 2010-05-23
Posts: 508
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

big_smile big_smile Joepotato28 and you have made a great song, perfect for the boss big_smile big_smile

maby di is on vacation hmm


getforumpic.php

Offline

#3 2010-08-09 12:46:04

Alexandre
Administrator
From: Brazil
Registered: 2009-01-27
Posts: 3,300
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

I'm contacting Di. We'll soon have his opinion. smile

Offline

#4 2010-08-09 13:09:50

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Alexandre wrote:

I'm contacting Di. We'll soon have his opinion. smile

THANK YOU!!!

Offline

#5 2010-08-09 17:55:38

Joepotato28
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2010-04-22
Posts: 22
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Alexandre wrote:

I'm contacting Di. We'll soon have his opinion. smile

Kewl beans. Thanks.

Offline

#6 2010-08-11 13:03:27

Tgarr94
Member
Registered: 2010-08-09
Posts: 5

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Thankfully Spuds and Silver are making another Collab and we can expect many more Collabs on their part big_smile lol


Steady Boys Steady- Excerpt from the song Hearts of Oak

Offline

#7 2010-08-11 13:37:37

Alexandre
Administrator
From: Brazil
Registered: 2009-01-27
Posts: 3,300
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

I have talked to Di and he's aware of this thread, but he wasn't able to get online in the last few days.

Nonetheless, I'm approving the song. Please send the .ogg file, and we'll include it into the game. smile

Thank you for your help.

Offline

#8 2010-08-11 13:40:39

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Alexandre wrote:

I have talked to Di and he's aware of this thread, but he wasn't able to get online in the last few days.

Nonetheless, I'm approving the song. Please send the .ogg file, and we'll include it into the game. smile

Thank you for your help.

YES!

I will upload it soon!

Offline

#9 2010-08-11 13:52:33

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

SilverstepP wrote:
Alexandre wrote:

I have talked to Di and he's aware of this thread, but he wasn't able to get online in the last few days.

Nonetheless, I'm approving the song. Please send the .ogg file, and we'll include it into the game. smile

Thank you for your help.

YES!

I will upload it soon!

Soon means now:

http://www.mediafire.com/?x1kmuy142wlxa1x

Offline

#10 2010-08-12 14:23:30

di_rodrigues
Member
Registered: 2010-08-12
Posts: 10

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Hey, hey!

Sorry about the delay, guys! I was absent for personal reasons, but now I promise to be more active. smile

Well, it seems that Alex has already approved the music, right? But, I will give my opinion anyway...

It's a good song in general, but:

1. Very repetitive.
2. The audio reproduction is limited to 10 channels of audio (stereo), and the chips are a Yamaha YM2612 (FM) and a SN76489 (PSG). They can be faithfully emulated by any hardware or software, including virtual instruments (VST) and audio trackers. The music is not following the required specifications, but may be an exception, depends on the final word of Alex.
3. Need more speed and groove.
4. The piano was poorly expressed in the intro. Maybe it's the way it was presented musically.

That's all folks! anyway, good work, guys! wink

See ya!

Offline

#11 2010-08-12 16:16:10

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

di_rodrigues wrote:

Hey, hey!

Sorry about the delay, guys! I was absent for personal reasons, but now I promise to be more active. smile

Well, it seems that Alex has already approved the music, right? But, I will give my opinion anyway...

It's a good song in general, but:

1. Very repetitive.
2. The audio reproduction is limited to 10 channels of audio (stereo), and the chips are a Yamaha YM2612 (FM) and a SN76489 (PSG). They can be faithfully emulated by any hardware or software, including virtual instruments (VST) and audio trackers. The music is not following the required specifications, but may be an exception, depends on the final word of Alex.
3. Need more speed and groove.
4. The piano was poorly expressed in the intro. Maybe it's the way it was presented musically.

That's all folks! anyway, good work, guys! wink

See ya!

Just because he approved it doesn't mean we can't change a few things to it!

1. I can probably fix that. A lot of my songs have this problem, unfortunately.
2. Um, the which specification is it breaking? All of them? One of them? Because that could make 1 kind of difficult.
3. I can always mess with the tempo.
4. I'm thinking about changing that Piano to something else... Something with more 'oomph', if you know what I mean.

Alexandre, since you say we can use this song, on the to-do list, could you put down 50 percent instead of complete? I'll try to fix it up a little bit.

Offline

#12 2010-08-12 19:29:32

Alexandre
Administrator
From: Brazil
Registered: 2009-01-27
Posts: 3,300
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Offline

#13 2010-08-12 22:03:28

So-Nick
Member
From: Brasil
Registered: 2010-03-20
Posts: 608

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

di_rodrigues wrote:

Hey, hey!

Sorry about the delay, guys! I was absent for personal reasons, but now I promise to be more active. smile

Well, it seems that Alex has already approved the music, right? But, I will give my opinion anyway...

It's a good song in general, but:

1. Very repetitive.
2. The audio reproduction is limited to 10 channels of audio (stereo), and the chips are a Yamaha YM2612 (FM) and a SN76489 (PSG). They can be faithfully emulated by any hardware or software, including virtual instruments (VST) and audio trackers. The music is not following the required specifications, but may be an exception, depends on the final word of Alex.
3. Need more speed and groove.
4. The piano was poorly expressed in the intro. Maybe it's the way it was presented musically.

That's all folks! anyway, good work, guys! wink

See ya!

silvrstepP makes music. use in the project, he already had several emails


sonicknucklesemeraldsma.gif

Offline

#14 2010-08-13 03:21:11

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Nick the hedgehog wrote:
di_rodrigues wrote:

Hey, hey!

Sorry about the delay, guys! I was absent for personal reasons, but now I promise to be more active. smile

Well, it seems that Alex has already approved the music, right? But, I will give my opinion anyway...

It's a good song in general, but:

1. Very repetitive.
2. The audio reproduction is limited to 10 channels of audio (stereo), and the chips are a Yamaha YM2612 (FM) and a SN76489 (PSG). They can be faithfully emulated by any hardware or software, including virtual instruments (VST) and audio trackers. The music is not following the required specifications, but may be an exception, depends on the final word of Alex.
3. Need more speed and groove.
4. The piano was poorly expressed in the intro. Maybe it's the way it was presented musically.

That's all folks! anyway, good work, guys! wink

See ya!

silvrstepP makes music. use in the project, he already had several emails

Um... thanks...

I sent you a few emails, Di. That's what he means.

Offline

#15 2010-08-14 04:05:36

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

The audio reproduction is limited to 10 channels of audio (stereo), and the chips are a Yamaha YM2612 (FM) and a SN76489 (PSG). They can be faithfully emulated by any hardware or software, including virtual instruments (VST) and audio trackers.

Could someone tell me how I follow those specifications? This is what I'm not so sure of... we also can't work on this song further for the moment because Joe's having some sort of computer trouble... and I don't have the .mid file to edit.

So, regarding the guidelines... by '10 channels of audio' does it mean less than ten channels on the MIDI file, or less than 10 notes at a given moment in the song?

I like music but I'm not much of a nerd about the whole 'chip' thing, but so far my music has worked on every download of the levels I've uploaded (At least those I heard about) so is this a problem as well?

Well... since Joe's gone for a bit...

I might even try my hand at a final boss theme (not collab) while Joe's unavailable... but I need to clear this up a bit first.

Offline

#16 2010-08-14 13:35:17

KZR
Member
Registered: 2010-07-14
Posts: 1,447
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

SilverstepP wrote:

The audio reproduction is limited to 10 channels of audio (stereo), and the chips are a Yamaha YM2612 (FM) and a SN76489 (PSG). They can be faithfully emulated by any hardware or software, including virtual instruments (VST) and audio trackers.

Could someone tell me how I follow those specifications? This is what I'm not so sure of... we also can't work on this song further for the moment because Joe's having some sort of computer trouble... and I don't have the .mid file to edit.

So, regarding the guidelines... by '10 channels of audio' does it mean less than ten channels on the MIDI file, or less than 10 notes at a given moment in the song?

I like music but I'm not much of a nerd about the whole 'chip' thing, but so far my music has worked on every download of the levels I've uploaded (At least those I heard about) so is this a problem as well?

Well... since Joe's gone for a bit...

I might even try my hand at a final boss theme (not collab) while Joe's unavailable... but I need to clear this up a bit first.

The Yamaha YM2612 is a sound chip that generates frequency modulated sounds, much like any FM synth nowadays. Most synths in the 80's were FM synths. these are known for their characteristic sounds ranging from plastic to metallic.

The Yamaha DX7 is a great example. It sounds like a Genesis played with a piano keyboard big_smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drazBABpyCw

Closest match for FL Studio users is the Fruity DX10. I use it thoroughly when composing for Open Sonic. And for more complex sounds i go with Sytrus. These are merely examples, once you understand how FM synthesis works you'll be able to design your own FM instruments by combining and subtracting  waves from other synths.
Great Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_ … _synthesis

Now for 10 channels of audio, this is a question i am afraid of not answering right... because one channel of audio is like a track that plays only one instrument or audio sample, possibly with volume and pitch settings per note, and per channel.
channels usually support a polyphony of X notes, being X a number defined by the hardware/software specs, but ALWAYS dependent on hardware capabilities. I don't really know if the Genesis supported polyphonic channels. What difference does this make?

Let's make a chord, shall we? Just never mind about what notes are there.

Channel: 1
Polyphony: 4

~~~~~~
n1 ---0---
n2 ---0---
n3 ---0---
n4 ---0---
~~~~~~

a polyphony of 4 enables a single channel to play up to 4 notes simultaneously. now, old school style:

Channel 1     Channel 2     Channel 3     Channel 4   
Poly: 1          Poly: 1           Poly: 1          Poly: 1         

~~~~~~      ~~~~~~      ~~~~~~      ~~~~~~     
n1 ---0---      n1 ---0---      n1 ---0---      n1 ---0---     
~~~~~~      ~~~~~~      ~~~~~~      ~~~~~~

As you can see only one note is allowed simultaneously on each channel, so to create the same 4 note chord, 4 channels are played simultaneously, all 4 channels set to the same instrument, but playing different notes.

I assume the whole point of composing with such limitations, in what regards the project, is to keep the 16 bit flavor, even in the musical part.

As for drums, i'd recommend the Drumsynth Presets, and drum kits based on retro drum machines, synths and videogames. as they are the closest to what the Genesis could do.

i can zip some and up them to you if you want. no copywrong issues, they are all free smile

As far as i know, the Genesis also supported playing a few short audio samples, but bear in mind that crisp-clear cd/dvd quality samples will break the overall 16 bit feel, resample them to something below 11000 Hz, bit depht between 2 and 8 and feel the difference. sure, you lose most of what made it sound "real", but you gain the sound of "being reproduced by some sophistimicted retro doowhacky" hehe
to do this in real time while composing, BJ LoFi is a great free VST effect. give it a shot!

my level "Kaizer City" has a track i composed based on all this principles. only BJLoFi wasn't used this time, but will come up strong in the next level's song big_smile

Anyways, fire up your favorite Genesis Emu, turn the sound up, and listen to some tunes on your favorite games, add some sonic games, streets of rage, etc.
now that you understand FM synthesis and the Genesis sound system a little better, you will be able to do a more clinical analysis on those songs, and then reproduce those base elements in your songs wink

big cheers


SD_sml.pngSeD_sml.pngLTot_W_sml.png
https://discord.gg/w8JqM7m ---> Open Surge's Discord server

Offline

#17 2010-08-14 14:37:05

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

KZR wrote:
SilverstepP wrote:

The audio reproduction is limited to 10 channels of audio (stereo), and the chips are a Yamaha YM2612 (FM) and a SN76489 (PSG). They can be faithfully emulated by any hardware or software, including virtual instruments (VST) and audio trackers.

Could someone tell me how I follow those specifications? This is what I'm not so sure of... we also can't work on this song further for the moment because Joe's having some sort of computer trouble... and I don't have the .mid file to edit.

So, regarding the guidelines... by '10 channels of audio' does it mean less than ten channels on the MIDI file, or less than 10 notes at a given moment in the song?

I like music but I'm not much of a nerd about the whole 'chip' thing, but so far my music has worked on every download of the levels I've uploaded (At least those I heard about) so is this a problem as well?

Well... since Joe's gone for a bit...

I might even try my hand at a final boss theme (not collab) while Joe's unavailable... but I need to clear this up a bit first.

'words'

....

Well, I am now TOTALLY confused. So how do I actually USE the chip? I do not use FL Studio to create my music, as well...

Is this a problem?

Last edited by SilverstepP (2010-08-14 14:46:40)

Offline

#18 2010-08-14 20:16:08

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

....

14 dislikes...

Is my music really that bad?... sad

EDIT: Well, I believe we're getting trolled, judging by the 'sophisticated opinion' provided by that excellent comment.

Last edited by SilverstepP (2010-08-14 20:23:34)

Offline

#19 2010-08-14 20:27:42

KZR
Member
Registered: 2010-07-14
Posts: 1,447
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

the thing is you do not use the chips. actually you emulate the sounds they can produce. that is done with hardware (the Yamaha DX7 for example) or your favorite sequencer with the right virtual instruments (like the Fruity DX10).
Since you do not use FL studio, you can try and search for FM synths that are compatible with your sequencer. if it is VST compatible, then you have a lot where to choose from.

sorry i didn't mean to confuse you tongue


SD_sml.pngSeD_sml.pngLTot_W_sml.png
https://discord.gg/w8JqM7m ---> Open Surge's Discord server

Offline

#20 2010-08-16 19:26:59

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Alright people.

Our video is being attacked by a single person with 14 (yes, 14) different accounts. This is not the first time Joe had to deal with this person, and he seems to have resurfaced recently.

It is NOT because the music is bad.

Now, rule of thumb for this troll:

1. DO NOT respond to any of his comments.
2. DO NOT make any new comments if you have an account or he might spam you. Leave comments here in the forum.
3. DO NOT even go to his channels.
4. If he gets on your account, follow these rules. Do not let him mess your Youtube stuff up. He will not hesitate to flag everything you put on your account.

Man, I hate trolls.

Offline

#21 2010-08-16 19:28:51

Joepotato28
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2010-04-22
Posts: 22
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

SilverstepP wrote:

....

14 dislikes...

Is my music really that bad?... sad

EDIT: Well, I believe we're getting trolled, judging by the 'sophisticated opinion' provided by that excellent comment.

SilverstepP is correct I've been dealing with this troll and his wide array of alternative accounts since November, best thing to do is ignore him. Don't acknowledge his existence

Offline

#22 2010-09-06 04:31:00

Alexandre
Administrator
From: Brazil
Registered: 2009-01-27
Posts: 3,300
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

A bit late, but we need to confirm: is this song GPL?

Offline

#23 2010-09-06 18:35:14

SilverstepP
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2009-07-31
Posts: 1,545

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

Alexandre wrote:

A bit late, but we need to confirm: is this song GPL?

Well, there's this thing about the song...

Joe doesn't like how it sounds and wants to do it over. sad

I, on the other hand, think it just needs to be improved.

We're a bit divided about this right now...

Offline

#24 2010-09-06 19:35:56

Alexandre
Administrator
From: Brazil
Registered: 2009-01-27
Posts: 3,300
Website

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

That's unfortunate. sad

In fact, I partly agree with you guys: there is room for improvement (or even for a new song). However, in my opinion this music is acceptable, at least as a temporary solution. The problem is: we can't use that song in the game, even temporarily, unless we have your permission (that is, a license).

It's up to you.

Offline

#25 2010-09-06 19:36:27

So-Nick
Member
From: Brasil
Registered: 2010-03-20
Posts: 608

Re: Open Sonic Boss Theme (Special Thanks to Joepotato28)

mad roll cool     NO BAD SONG smile smile smile smile neutral neutral neutral big_smile big_smile big_smile sad yikes yikes wink hmm tongue  NICE SONG


sonicknucklesemeraldsma.gif

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB  hosted by tuxfamily.org