Topic: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

so here's the scoop: we HAVE the engine features we need to accomplish this.

we need:

a scrolling background. any regular .bg file will do.

3 or more objects representing each section of the tube (or only one, if you use constant speed like in most special stages)

give such objects animations for: depth scrolling (sense of speed), in straights and in a few angles for curves

use the brickset to build the shape of the tube, set it to a very low z-index so it doesn't show

make a player sprite that faces forward instead of sideways, and use the brick structure normally.

create some item spawners for rings and line them up at the horizon

make those items increase scale as they move towards the bottom, and move at a certain angle depending on the spawn point for a depth effect.

add collision conditions for picking up items and some hazards

add a finish condition (time? rings?too many hazards?)

---
how awesome it would be to run in the subway tunnels in special stages of city chill? tongue

Last edited by KZR (2012-06-01 12:22:06)

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

That seems... interesting. I was thinking that Bonus Stages would contain something like a field stage in Sonic Crackers. With your new 2.5D graphics that could be possible.

EDIT: Remember what the API Reference said about the "create_item" decorator.

Last edited by S32X (2012-06-01 20:54:29)

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

My initial idea for the special stages would be to create pseudo 3D levels with Mode7. Games like: Sonic CD, Mario Kart and F-Zero use that technique.

http://images.wikia.com/sonic/images/5/59/Specialstage2shot1.png

http://pjmoo.codigolivre.org.br/gdj/site/tutorial/29062003_234304/Fzero4.gif

http://jo.imguol.com/album/tematicos/termos-tecnicos-dos-graficos-nos-games_f_007.jpg

I believe that adding proper Mode7 support to the engine, however, is difficult and time consuming, because the existing concepts of objects and bricksets would have to be adapted.

Your idea, although more limited, is a simpler and easier one. I still don't want to discard the Mode7 idea (because it's VERY cool and because I haven't had the time yet to find out exactly how difficult it is to make it), but the tube idea is something that we definitely want to keep in mind. I added it to the TODO List, so we won't forget it.

http://opensnc.sourceforge.net/wiki/ind … List#Tasks

Thank you for the insight. smile

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

Mode 7 is a very good idea. But so is KZR's. I suggest we go Sonic 3K. Meaning having two different types of Special Zones that had different purposes. One could be Mode 7. The other is hidden very deep in the level, and only can be found by shier coincidence. These Special Zone when upon completing, you who get send 4 or 5 levels ahead. For example: Say you're in Sunshine Paradise Zone and find one of these and complete it. You would then get sent to Black Forest zone or City Chill zone.

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

S32X wrote:

These Special Zone when upon completing, you who get send 4 or 5 levels ahead. For example: Say you're in Sunshine Paradise Zone and find one of these and complete it. You would then get sent to Black Forest zone or City Chill zone.

Skipping levels is simply not the way to go in order to experience the complete storyline. The player will go "where dafuq am i" and stop playing simply because of messed up storylines. Say you're in Sunshine Paradise. Then you complete a special zone, and you end up in City Chill. Charge will be following you with no proper introduction. Player = mindblown.

Your teacher asks you. What to answer? Say this:
"I thought the teacher is supposed to know."

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

SurgeChris is right, because we have a quite linear storyline now.

Ideas for bonus levels

And indeed, S32X, both special stage ideas are nice. Since it will take some more time 'til we get to implement the bonus levels, we're also looking forward to hearing some new crazy, unrelated ideas. What if we made this thread a brainstorm one? Just throw some ideas for a bonus stage. It doesn't have to do anything with Mode7 or Sonic2 (but it can).

There are no wrong ideas at this point, and we (everyone) must not criticize any of them. Just throw some crazy thoughts.

One random thought: a pinball machine!

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

do you understand rubyscript? you might want to look into the mode7 script for RPG Maker.

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

KZR wrote:

do you understand rubyscript? you might want to look into the mode7 script for RPG Maker.

the issue is not mode7 itself; the challenge would actually be to build it into the engine.

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

my point is, if someone built it on a scripted level, there is probably some reference around...

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

Would it be easier to do it with allegro 5 than allegro 4?  I would assume it is because of GPU support, but it would take quite a while to convert the engine to A5 because A5 actually has quite a different workflow than A4.  Now that me and KZR can compile the game perhaps we could help in something like this, however it would likely take some time to do it.  There is one thing that might make you happy though, linking against the monolith library for A5 gives you all the support of many (if not all)of the plugins you currently use and I do believe A5 contains out of the box support for ttf fonts and 32-bit png files and you would only have to include that one library with your .exe files.  I'll talk to KZR and await your response, maybe we can do something cool :-)

If I knew then what I know now I'd tell you that the story's true.  Cause whatever you do, it comes back to you.  -Slaughter, Burning Bridges

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

A5 is a completely different world, but if you're willing to try it, definitely go for it. smile

lunarrush wrote:

Would it be easier to do it with allegro 5 than allegro 4?

As far as I know, Mode7 requires per-pixel manipulation (I'm not sure, though). A5 is pretty bad at it.

edit: actually, it depends on the surface type you're using.

Last edited by Alexandre (2012-06-03 04:26:34)

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

do you understand c++ ? i know of an old engine called DIV Games Studio that had modes 7 and 8 (doom like)... in DOS!!

i think if there is some source code laying around the web, we may have found super-fast perspective effects

Edit: more recently (relatively, it's been abandoned for a few years) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenix_Project

Last edited by KZR (2012-06-02 07:12:50)

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

Cool cool

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

Alexandre wrote:

SurgeChris is right, because we have a quite linear storyline now.

Ideas for bonus levels

And indeed, S32X, both special stage ideas are nice. Since it will take some more time 'til we get to implement the bonus levels, we're also looking forward to hearing some new crazy, unrelated ideas. What if we made this thread a brainstorm one? Just throw some ideas for a bonus stage. It doesn't have to do anything with Mode7 or Sonic2 (but it can).

There are no wrong ideas at this point, and we (everyone) must not criticize any of them. Just throw some crazy thoughts.

One random thought: a pinball machine!

The pinball machine is an awesome idea. I think that could be accessed via a lamppost (checkpoint) For my warping levels idea, these Special Zones would be extremely deep in the level. Sonic 3K had HUGE level maps. If it still seems like a bad idea, just scrap it then

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

How deep in the level are you talking about?  Would it be more abstract than the 'warp zone' in Mario 1, or perhaps we  could make it work on a warp zone set kind of like Mario 3 did, you get an item which you can use to go worlds ahead.

If I knew then what I know now I'd tell you that the story's true.  Cause whatever you do, it comes back to you.  -Slaughter, Burning Bridges

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

I don't know what you mean by "abstract". Plus I've never played Super Mario Bros. 3.

New idea:

When you complete a Special Zone, you get a little summary of what happens between the two levels.

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

S32X wrote:

New idea

When you complete a Special Zone, you get a little summary of what happens between the two levels.

Spoiler = no fun, imo. What do the others think?

Your teacher asks you. What to answer? Say this:
"I thought the teacher is supposed to know."

Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

How many times do I have to say it? DEEP DEEP DEEP in the level! There would be a 1,000,000-1 chance a player would find it. I have a even newer idea. The special zone would be hidden in the background. I had a dream (a dream as in when your sleeping) that the player just jumps out of the level and into the background to the Special Zone. I'm not sure how the player would access it, but there was a lot of other weird stuff in the dream... hmm

Last edited by S32X (2012-06-03 21:05:32)

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

Alex, how helpful can this be?
http://wiki.allegro.cc/index.php?title= … m_A4_to_A5

EDIT: scroll all the way down to "super nintendo mode 7"

http://web.archive.org/web/201005152003 … sincos.htm

as the site is, all the links in it are probably dead. i used the waybackmachine (http://web.archive.org) to "revive" that site, you may need to do it on its links.

Last edited by KZR (2012-06-04 02:32:08)

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

I don't see a "Super Nintendo mode 7" on that page.

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

it's at the bottom, did the page load completely?

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

Yeah.

Time for a stupid question: which link is it?

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

the second one, right after i edited

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

KZR wrote:

Alex, how helpful can this be?
http://wiki.allegro.cc/index.php?title= … m_A4_to_A5

not much.

I started questioning whether moving to A5 is such a really good idea. Sure, it's got hw accel, but a fast computer should run A4's software special effects just fine. Also, since our engine is retro-based, porting it to mobile is perhaps a far better move than making it more juicy for modern computers. And there's SDL.

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Re: [Ideas] Special stage, Sonic 2 style

what about the link about mode 7 ?

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