(14 replies, posted in General)

ok. this is a quick mockup made in TGF2, a lighter version of MMF.
notice how much you jump in and out of the water, and how much acceleration is affected.
yes there are collision bugs with solids, but they're not the point.

water test.rar

the original project is included, if you have MMF2 or TGF2 you might wanna look into it.

here's how it's done:

water level       ~~~~~~~
water objects  [][][][][][][]

the water level object ( ~ ) represents the waves on the surface. it detects collisions with the player and creates a splash when such collision is detected. it can also be used as a barrier that destroys bubbles that spawn underwater (not shown here) it's X size is the same of the splash.
The water objects ( [] ) are what actually affects gravity, and acceleration. they are semi-transparent and may contain an animation representing the flow. when touching a water object gravity is reduced and so is acceleration. when not touching it, values are reset to off-water defaults. this can be any size, opposed to the water level objects that should not be wider than splashes.


(14 replies, posted in General)

Alexandre wrote:

Possible, but the water wouldn't flow and it wouldn't be possible to customize it through scripting. Having a global water, with the same parameters and an additional one, height, would be easily configurable via scripting.

True, this water does not flow. it doesn't run through gaps, and doesn't fall. it's a way of creating static water for pools. And if the brick is animated correctly, it may give the sensation that it's flowing. i've done this once with Multimedia Fusion and worked like a charm. complete with splashes when going in and out the water objects smile.

i can post a demo if you like.


(14 replies, posted in General)

Alexandre wrote:

The only problem is that pools of water are not a feasible thing, as we'd have to simulate fluids to get it correctly and it would be terrible to customize via scripting.

i believe a water or maybe "liquid" brick is a feasible thing with these parameters:
- Thickness (thicker liqids have more gravity and friction, thinner ones have less)
- Jump power (how much the liquid's pressure affects jumping height)

and link to the engine's internal variables you have defined for gravity, friction, x/y speed etc. it's just a matter of finding a simple formula to translate those two parameters into game variables

the global water level is a good thing but could also be a separate resource when building water levels.


(33 replies, posted in Game assets)

you can GPL anything i do, however the original stuff is SilverstepP's so it's his call here.


(6 replies, posted in Off-topic)

Hello and welcome.

nice music on Youtube, did you compose all the songs for Elemental Halcyon?

Gingerjoberton wrote:

I'm generally doing the music, story and Lore - and it would seem that you don't need me for any of these

anyone can be helpful in this community. if you think you can make something better in the game, just do it smile just remember to share and be open to any feedback.

When the change from Open Sonic to Open Surge occurs, everything will change. the game already has a story, but maybe you can help making it better and setting a lore so that everything in the game is unique, even though it shares Sonic's gameplay style.

Enjoy your stay wink


(33 replies, posted in Game assets)

SoniChris wrote:


SilverstepP wrote:


how about... the doors from pic 2 and the palette from pic 2 with half the brightness? the palette on Silver's doors is almost an exact copy of the characters palette which is a good thing, except when it gets hard to see over dark stuff. SoniChris came up with a simple design that looks good, but doesn't illustrate  "DNA door" very well. i like the colors, but it's too bright.
i recolored it. tested these and looked alright but let me know what you think.



(15 replies, posted in General)

wooo this topic is long dead

but i hope Bertram is still with us smile

Bertram wrote:

- First of all, there could be quests mixing cooperative play, and single play mode.
- Secondly, why not also make some levels especially made on character in particular.

the new DNA doors can be used for this effect. at least for now. you just build the level matching the character's skills and lock everyone behind DNA doors with the color of who gets to play the level.

Bertram wrote:

- And fourth, I still believe that letting the members be able to start at different points could be a good addition.

that would be awesome! A possible good use of that could be a level where one or two of the characters are trapped behind doors and the other(s) have to go find the switch to release them

and velkan14 i hope you are still with us too smile

velkan14 wrote:

After the spindash I only can jump after a while, what I would love is that really after the spindash we could make a jump. Its useful in small platforms.

it's funny someone mentions this. i ran into the same problem when building levels. and i figured it maybe is meant to be like this. however, jumping and spindashing are two actions with rolling animations and could link up with no delay


(2 replies, posted in General)

it's funny how those special stages have the same mechanics of early racing games. just a fake depth effect made by multiple levels of parallax. I wonder if it is possible with the current engine, even if partially...

Alexandre wrote:

You can already make lots of cool enemies.

YEAH! big_smile


(9 replies, posted in Game assets)

ssdw wrote:

LC will have this tool.
from the beginning was this a plan wink

no offense to anyone, but i hope one day LC is much better than the built in editor. especially after all planned features are included. however, the built in editor uses the game engine, and that's why i prefer it. it's like play - pause - change - play again. the work flow is different.
maybe some day LC can be merged in the official editor, who knows?

SilverstepP wrote:

Seriously, where has Cel been? I believe he said his brickset creator would support backgrounds eventually... sad

Maybe he's looking into that already (or so we hope...) wink

Alexandre wrote:
So-Nick wrote:



Well thank you [2] smile Konami made it possible tongue

SilverstepP wrote:

4. Decrease the power of the blue springs to about 3/4 of what it is now.

that would lead to having to update ALL levels that already make use of the "overpowered" blue spring. maybe a new spring, intermediate to blue and red would be best.


(9 replies, posted in Game assets)

Alexandre wrote:

Awesome! smile I feel like playing a different game. Well done.

A bit of criticism: the parallax scrolling seems a bit like paper. One can easily see the layers moving at different speeds (one on top of another) rather than a continuous movement.

The brickset is very nice too, and the level has some mysteries.

if only parallax bg's were as easy to make as levels are... tongue


(9 replies, posted in Game assets)

A level inspired by the Castlevania saga.

Contains graphics ripped from CV games. I take no credit for ripping. Instead I credit the good people contributing to vgmaps.com.


I assume people in the forums already know where to put the files, but for newcomers here's how to do it:

*.lev -> levels folder
*.brk , *.bg  -> themes folder
*.ogg -> musics folder
*.png -> images folder

tips and features:

- Download the latest Bleeding Edge release. do it or you won't be able to play
- one of the new items is found in this level. (sorry, no spoilers)
- not every spring leads to a safe place
- this level may take 10 or more minutes to clear. It's difficult and it's huge
- no deaths for falling off screen, except in one place
- this level explores each character's good and bad points
- any character can clear this level, but all 3 are needed to get through. expect lots of doors and DNA doors
- some crazy loops i never thought would be possible tongue
- spike traps!! this is Dracula's castle, not a walk in the park....
- the end of the level is... easy to understand, i hope. but damn hard to get tongue


(7 replies, posted in General)

Alexandre wrote:

If Soundclick is reliable, one or two people could be in charge of maintaining the repository (i.e., uploading the songs and ensuring quality control), with, of course, a new account.

I use it since 2004. Except for a single time when some songs got corrupted and i had to re-upload them, it's been reliable so far.

ssdw wrote:

i know, but it does sound like midi

like a crappy midi sound bank, yes tongue some midi soundbanks have awesome quality, but the ones we're used to have in Windows are the crappiest of the crap tongue


(7 replies, posted in General)

ssdw wrote:

I don't like midi music but... what a great idea  to share music!

what program do you use

It's not midi... only the instruments are very close to the sounds generated by the console. I use FL Studio, since 2000 smile

Alexandre wrote:

Great initiative. smile

I wonder if we can create a free music repository for level designers such that, with a reliable hosting, other musicians can publish their songs too, provided that they are free to use and "good enough" (according to other musicians from the community). Never heard of SoundClick before, but is it possible?

Soundclick allows hosting for a virtually unlimited number of songs. The basic Free account has size limits for each song, but none other than that. The only way to have all users upload their songs is to have someone in charge of managing the account. 
I actually could give my username and password to such person, but the my user/pass also manages some other music pages for other projects i'm involved in, and the wrong person could cause a mess, or even download and share songs without my consent, so that's tricky and I hope you understand why i don't share the access ...
However, a community account CAN be created, and someone CAN be put in charge of receiving and upping the songs.

Soundcloud is another service that has a nice dropbox to recieve songs that you can embed in forums, myspace, etc, but it's much more limited as it only lets you upload a certain number of songs each month.

I certainly vote Soundclick. The limits are not crippling, anyone can download and even listen to the songs before down'ing them, no waiting times for download, no traffic limits... it's a good host for music files smile

If we get someone to manage the account, it's just a matter of setting up a GMail address so that users can email their songs to that person. I say GMail because it allows for large attachments, any other similar service will also do.


(7 replies, posted in General)

Hello everyone

Shortly after I discovered how to create music sounding like genesis/mega drive games, i felt compelled to convert many of my original songs to this sound style, so they would fit new levels being created.
but while converting the instruments of existing songs to this SEGA 16bit style takes only a few minutes, creating a perfect new level may take weeks, so the songs kinda got stacked up... and my second level is still not out!! (but very close to be finished big_smile )

so i figured, why not share them with fellow level makers?

This URL links you to a Soundclick page with free downloads of every song i convert to 16bit style, so that anyone in the opensnc community can use them in their own levels, and even replace some of the songs bundled with the game.
more songs to be added in time. this post will be updated everytime a new song is up wink


have a nice  level-making day big_smile


(26 replies, posted in General)

Thank you SoniChris for designing the icons, but maybe you got ahead too much, since we are only discussing the ideas. none of this is implemented without Alexandre's approval. but still, those may be useful as base to the actual icons of the upcoming pipe system.

Alexandre wrote:

The 4-directions pipe system is in fact simpler to develop,but it is also more limited. I don't know yet which system we'll adopt - as I've said, we're on advanced ground here. Anyway, the other approach would be

1. Put a "pipe begin" (B) object somewhere;
2. Insert a chain of "pipe nodes" (+). Once the player touches a node, it will move towards the closest next pipe node;
3. Put a "pipe end" (E) object at the end of the construction.

Then, making a pipe of any shape would as be simple as
             +                +++++++++ E
              +              +
                +          +
                  +      +
If you need crossroads, use multiple colors of pipe objects, as Silver has said.

Nodes can do it right, as long as the spin animation is forced while in "pipe state", there won't be any visible bugs regarding the sprite facing the wrong direction (faced direction is not visible in the spin animation, since it is a spinning motion)
this way sprites can travel in any angle using only one animation, but the placement of nodes in more complex tubes must be precise, so the player sprite doesn't run off the pipe brick. it still follows the nodes, but visually will not feel right.

I also believe that after some tweaks, the node system for tubes could be used for loops too, to help the sprite stick to the walls and floor, even on badly built loops, regardless of designer or engine errors. if the sprite is not running at minimum loop speed the nodes are broken and you fall or slide back to the floor
maybe Alexandre can even use this node system to make physics programming a lot easier, by using nodes as shortcuts to some nasty physics calculations. as the end result is merely visual, the methods to achieve it are not really important, as long as they are the simplest functional solution. This doesn't mean you should scrap the current physics system, but in addition to the player-background collision system, more helper objects can give much more flexibility in level creation.

Different colors are also a win, as long as the same color can be used more than once in different, non-crossing pipes

Alexandre wrote:

By the way, does some of you know how pipes work in the original classic Sonic games?

Probably with nodes wink plus gravity and momentum

SilverstepP wrote:

However, instead of re-enabling them upon exit, I think we should just enable them upon entrance... after you exit, the nodes will stay disabled, and when the level starts they will be disabled already. Will this work better, or will it make any difference?

I guess the point is to always stay disabled unless touched (for entrance and exit nodes) or activated by previous node (for mid-tube nodes). or maybe entrance/exit should be always active, so there is always a start/end.


(26 replies, posted in General)

SilverstepP wrote:

Well this seems confusing. Maybe I should explain my idea again a bit differently. I find need for only 9 objects, all merely 48x48 squares.

Option 1

1. Pipe entrance left.
2. Pipe entrance right.
3. Pipe entrance up.
4. Pipe entrance down.
5. Left turn
6. Right turn
7. Up turn
8. Down turn
9. Pipe exit (Turns off every direction)

Pipe entrance puts you in a special 'pipe' state and centers you, and sends you in the indicated direction going at a given speed. The objects could be 48x48, so that it all fits the grid and causes less accuracy errors (So you won't fly past the object by a pixel and glitch the level).

Seperate entrances and turns... It allows much more freedom for pipe design.

However, a few optional objects could be added once pipes ARE implemented.

1. (I think KZR tried mentioning this) The direction chooser. The player is stopped immediately, and given the choice of going in any direction. However, I don't know how we could manage this without glitching somehow.

2. Pipe speed up. Makes the player go through the pipe faster.

3. Pipe speed down. Take a wild guess.

4. Extra directions; 45 degree Diagonal pipes. This means 8 more objects....

Well, those should be extra stuff, like I said. It isn't top priority. Plus, the direction changer seems a bit too 'unintentional game breaking' for my tastes. I think we can live without it... The other three are just extra ideas... I say we should get the core stuff in first before even considering these others.

Well, if the core stuff gets implemented any time soon. I know it's going to be a while.

Nice big_smile that 9 object system seems pretty solid. I also had in mind separate entrances and exits but missed the direction chooser. I also like the speed changers.
Angled pipes also seem nice. we need as many angles to build a curve pipe as we need to build a loop, so those are maybe a super-low priority task. but i can't help but feel nostalgic about those S pipes in Green Hill Zone tongue

About the possibility of running off tracks by a pixel glitch, maybe the pipes should be built with obstacle bricks on the sides, and inside the pipe go all the objects to command speed and direction, as well as the passable bricks that resemble the tube 's inner or outer shape. this way we can make glass pipes, steel pipes, rock pipes, etc, and even use zindex so show, or cover the player sprites

I really hope this gets implemented someday. pipes are just classic big_smile


(26 replies, posted in General)

maybe this is simpler:

actual pipes are not bricks, they are objects, such as loop objects.
the pipe graphic, that is a brick. this allows for infinite different pype styles to be created.

as for the objects, Silverstepp got the right mechanics.
i'm going to try and describe graphically how it would work

(>) pipe entrance right, or one way right
(<) pipe entrance left, or one way left
(V) pipe entrance down, or one way down
(A) pipe entrance right, or one way right
(AV) pipe segment, 2 ways up and down
(<>) pipe segment, 2 ways left and right
(X) crossover, switches from (AV) to (<>) when crossing in the right direction, given by the last touched pipe object

every object forces the spin animation, so this is fail-proof regarding walking through the pipes instead of rolling
no need for curves, as the rolling animation changes direction when touching a pipe object.
in physics, only gravity and impulse may be involved, and those are both in the engine already.

maybe i missed something. anyone wants to add something? smile


near 1:40, pushable rock

angel island isn't even the best example, just the first one that came to my mind.

A scripting system is a good move! big_smile i'm anxious to test it

the thing is you do not use the chips. actually you emulate the sounds they can produce. that is done with hardware (the Yamaha DX7 for example) or your favorite sequencer with the right virtual instruments (like the Fruity DX10).
Since you do not use FL studio, you can try and search for FM synths that are compatible with your sequencer. if it is VST compatible, then you have a lot where to choose from.

sorry i didn't mean to confuse you tongue

SilverstepP wrote:

The audio reproduction is limited to 10 channels of audio (stereo), and the chips are a Yamaha YM2612 (FM) and a SN76489 (PSG). They can be faithfully emulated by any hardware or software, including virtual instruments (VST) and audio trackers.

Could someone tell me how I follow those specifications? This is what I'm not so sure of... we also can't work on this song further for the moment because Joe's having some sort of computer trouble... and I don't have the .mid file to edit.

So, regarding the guidelines... by '10 channels of audio' does it mean less than ten channels on the MIDI file, or less than 10 notes at a given moment in the song?

I like music but I'm not much of a nerd about the whole 'chip' thing, but so far my music has worked on every download of the levels I've uploaded (At least those I heard about) so is this a problem as well?

Well... since Joe's gone for a bit...

I might even try my hand at a final boss theme (not collab) while Joe's unavailable... but I need to clear this up a bit first.

The Yamaha YM2612 is a sound chip that generates frequency modulated sounds, much like any FM synth nowadays. Most synths in the 80's were FM synths. these are known for their characteristic sounds ranging from plastic to metallic.

The Yamaha DX7 is a great example. It sounds like a Genesis played with a piano keyboard big_smile


Closest match for FL Studio users is the Fruity DX10. I use it thoroughly when composing for Open Sonic. And for more complex sounds i go with Sytrus. These are merely examples, once you understand how FM synthesis works you'll be able to design your own FM instruments by combining and subtracting  waves from other synths.
Great Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_ … _synthesis

Now for 10 channels of audio, this is a question i am afraid of not answering right... because one channel of audio is like a track that plays only one instrument or audio sample, possibly with volume and pitch settings per note, and per channel.
channels usually support a polyphony of X notes, being X a number defined by the hardware/software specs, but ALWAYS dependent on hardware capabilities. I don't really know if the Genesis supported polyphonic channels. What difference does this make?

Let's make a chord, shall we? Just never mind about what notes are there.

Channel: 1
Polyphony: 4

n1 ---0---
n2 ---0---
n3 ---0---
n4 ---0---

a polyphony of 4 enables a single channel to play up to 4 notes simultaneously. now, old school style:

Channel 1     Channel 2     Channel 3     Channel 4   
Poly: 1          Poly: 1           Poly: 1          Poly: 1         

~~~~~~      ~~~~~~      ~~~~~~      ~~~~~~     
n1 ---0---      n1 ---0---      n1 ---0---      n1 ---0---     
~~~~~~      ~~~~~~      ~~~~~~      ~~~~~~

As you can see only one note is allowed simultaneously on each channel, so to create the same 4 note chord, 4 channels are played simultaneously, all 4 channels set to the same instrument, but playing different notes.

I assume the whole point of composing with such limitations, in what regards the project, is to keep the 16 bit flavor, even in the musical part.

As for drums, i'd recommend the Drumsynth Presets, and drum kits based on retro drum machines, synths and videogames. as they are the closest to what the Genesis could do.

i can zip some and up them to you if you want. no copywrong issues, they are all free smile

As far as i know, the Genesis also supported playing a few short audio samples, but bear in mind that crisp-clear cd/dvd quality samples will break the overall 16 bit feel, resample them to something below 11000 Hz, bit depht between 2 and 8 and feel the difference. sure, you lose most of what made it sound "real", but you gain the sound of "being reproduced by some sophistimicted retro doowhacky" hehe
to do this in real time while composing, BJ LoFi is a great free VST effect. give it a shot!

my level "Kaizer City" has a track i composed based on all this principles. only BJLoFi wasn't used this time, but will come up strong in the next level's song big_smile

Anyways, fire up your favorite Genesis Emu, turn the sound up, and listen to some tunes on your favorite games, add some sonic games, streets of rage, etc.
now that you understand FM synthesis and the Genesis sound system a little better, you will be able to do a more clinical analysis on those songs, and then reproduce those base elements in your songs wink

big cheers

hello community!

after a lot of playing, modding and level editing, i came up with a few ideas that may make the gameplay somewhat richer while keeping it simple, trying not to stray too much from the engine's mechanics.

i've noticed every brick can be assigned a property. if you are a die-hard sonic fan from back in the 90's like me, you'll notice that there is no "pushable" property. take sonic 3, angel island act 1 for example. you push a rock to reveal a secret room.
as far as i've tested, the OS engine doesn't handle any player-triggered brick movement. only bricks that move on their own, and bricks that can be destroyed.

so, suggestion #1 is: pushable bricks

picking up on #1, platforms that go down with character's weight, taking into account the possibility to have a different gravity factor for each brick, making it possible to create ones that fall faster or slower than others.

so #2 is: falling bricks

Tails can carry any other character. and i like making use of this when creating levels. but what if he could carry a brick? like picking up sonic and taking him to a place he can't reach by himself, tails could stack rocks to make a higher platform, or just take them out of the way, or take one and put it on a switch to open a door... you name it.

#3 is: portable bricks

now this is something i've never seen in any sonic game., maybe due to the fact that only chaotix uses more than one playable character. imagine the regular spring. you jump on it and bounce in a direction with higher speed. now imagine a spring that requires 1 char jumping on one end to make the char on the other end go up in the air. the more they bounce, the higher up they go. i don't know if there's an appropriate name for this so i'll just call it

#4, springs, and maybe other devices that require 2 or 3 chars to operate

last but not least, it would also be good to have the possibility of creating custom bosses. suppose you make a level and want the boss to be totally kick-ass while making sense with your level. honestly, it bugs me that eggman can't do more than shooting stuff at us. tired of eggman? go for that shiny metal sonic. tired of that too? back to eggman... for a preliminary phase, it would be nice if it was possible to change the sprite without messing with the original files. then if it really comes to be implemented, scripting the bosses' behavior would be the cherry on top of the cake big_smile that also allows for anyone to create their own custom enemies, not only bosses. so, final suggestion

#5 scriptable enemies and bosses

that's all folks! thank you for your time and please let me know what you all think.


(11 replies, posted in Game assets)

thank you all for your feedback.
for those having compatibility issues, go for the bleeding edge version. current "stable" version won't do. B.E. seems pretty stable to me, so... everyone, run to it!

some things changed meanwhile. i couldn't open the forum for quite a few hours so i got bored and did some bugfixes and modifications. nothing too heavy. the goal sign moved to another place.

go to post #1 of this thread. the download link has the updated file wink

now.. in Super Mario, when you clear the level they say something, which in this case i took the liberty of changing to:

Thank you Sonic, but Count Dracula is in another castle.

hmm... hints for a new level, anyone? tongue


(11 replies, posted in Game assets)

@ ssdw: sorry, bad url tag. it's now fixed.